00:00:00:

00:00:09: Welcome to a new episode of Mina Talk.

00:00:11: My name is Jasmin Arimi and I'm joined today with Ayal Draugh, he's an active reserve officer, lieutenant colonel reserve in the Israeli Defense Forces and has served for twenty-four years at different positions, security and coordination units of IDF.

00:00:31: Today he serves on a Golden Heights.

00:00:33: And many people know him as the founder and commander of The Good Neighbor Project – a humanitarian project that provided medical treatment food fuel and other supplies to Syrian civilians during war.

00:00:46: We are very happy with you today!

00:00:49: He

00:00:52: just means so.

00:00:53: thank you very much to you and the audience.

00:00:56: Thank You for the opportunity to share My voice in my message.

00:01:02: I do believe that what you're going to hear is Very unique.

00:01:05: probably most of the audience Didn't hear about operation good neighbor one of them biggest humanitarian Operation has been made by in-the-world ever, and i do believe anyone here about that, probably he will know much more details.

00:01:25: So for me it's an honor and I really appreciate being hosted here with you And we're going to have a very pleasant interview

00:01:34: i hope.

00:01:35: In your own words what was the main goal of Operation Good Neighbor?

00:01:40: How?

00:01:41: why did you decide to write book on it?

00:01:45: So operation good neighbors started in two thousand sixteen.

00:01:48: The days were of the Syrian civil war started a little bit earlier.

00:01:53: Israel realized back at two thousand thirteen that as Jews we cannot stand behind the security fence while people are dying and they were massacred by the former government, We saw it in our own eyes.

00:02:07: I think word saw.

00:02:11: infrastructure has been bombed people who were dying, they suffered without any medical assistance and we realized that We can give them a hand.

00:02:21: We realize That we don't have the opportunity like The rest of the world to close our eyes where Israel is with Jewish People?

00:02:30: Who suffered years ago when the war?

00:02:34: War Disignal from our problems back in the forties And we said that we cannot allow that.

00:02:40: this was thought behind.

00:02:43: The second thought which was connected.

00:02:45: Was that Syrian were educated to hate us for years?

00:02:49: This is the stories that we had from them and We realized it if they will for the first time in history because Syrians never met Israelis when They would realize that we are not come to conquer the land like they heard That we are here, And we're willing to risk our lives In order to give them life in order to get them aid.

00:03:12: we realize that this unique opportunity, We cannot miss it.

00:03:16: And we can change and build bridges between the Israelis people and the Syrians.

00:03:21: People are reminding you That nobody knew back at those times what will be The future of Syria.

00:03:28: This was the initial thought uh...the first thought behind It!

00:03:32: We never assumed that the operation Will Be such a huge and will influence so many people on the other side.

00:03:40: When I retired, i realized that this story must be written because it's an historic story.

00:03:48: So It took me like three years to publish in the Hebrew And then another two years to published in English.

00:03:57: Hopefully also it would be published during next year Also in Germany Because I do believe there is a story should

00:04:06: know.

00:04:07: Yeah, we are looking forward to it!

00:04:10: Can you describe the mission and what a typical mission also looked like?

00:04:15: So the mission was very simple – To provide humanitarian aid on other side of the Syrians.

00:04:21: It took us time... ...to build a network Of civilians On the other side People that were risking their lives.

00:04:31: They were willing to risk their lives.. ..To collaborate with the Israelis.

00:04:38: You know, in Arabic words sometimes if you are called in Arabic we say Amil it means like collaborator.

00:04:46: It's not a nice word when you probably can risk your life.

00:04:51: So he took us time because The time We were using to build trust between Us and Them In order To make them the opportunity reach the border and to trust us that we can deliver humanitarian aid.

00:05:08: So after will build this net, And After We learned what they need now I think it's important message when you're doing your humanitarian aid sometimes You give What do have?

00:05:23: But It is not necessarily what other side needs.

00:05:27: i was insisting To address very carefully what their real needs are And after we realized that, We succeeded to bring it To our unit.

00:05:41: Then It was a lot of work logistic work Very hardwork.

00:05:47: just put tons Of equipment on trucks at Our headquarter then going to the field On The Field.

00:06:00: It's not to provide humanitarian aid In a place that I don't know was hit by a storm.

00:06:09: It was to provide humanitarian aid on the hostile area.

00:06:12: at that time Al Qaeda, ISIS and Hezbollah were other side of defense.

00:06:17: There were enemies And we're coming closer to them.

00:06:22: So it was to risk their life and do all operational processes in order bring this supply to the other side of the fence.

00:06:32: I will mention on defense itself, not like stories that has been told.

00:06:39: we never entered these cities and villages of Syria were under border.

00:06:45: We put it on the other Side of the border of the fans And we ask our colleagues to come and take in order they would be able To provide so although Acted self was sometimes only forty five to sixty minutes.

00:07:01: It took Sometimes hours before to plan everything, to address everything To supply Everything to get the sponsorship from The NGOs that were working with us and then go With all the operational system in order to provide it for the other side.

00:07:20: And I will mention again & Again on an hostile area.

00:07:25: It wasn't on a clear area, so we had to take a lot of terms under calculation in order that our soldiers will come back alive.

00:07:40: Can you share one specific story that shows the challenges your team faced during the project and doing all this?

00:07:48: Of course there was plenty of it but two scenarios As commander that I was like and needed to give a very quick answer.

00:07:59: First of all, you're making older organization.

00:08:03: You are prepare all the preparation.

00:08:05: your ready?

00:08:05: Your coming through the spot And then You've been informed That there is fog.

00:08:15: Fog means that i cannot use my observation abilities To see what is going on the other side to understand that enemies not taking advantage.

00:08:26: now.

00:08:27: It wasn't a secret operation.

00:08:28: It means death if they are decide want to hit us.

00:08:33: it can collect intelligence and probably you don't need to be a sophisticated Intelligence officer in order to conduct a terror activity against me, my soldiers when you have a fog You're.

00:08:47: it's a decent huge disadvantage in my language.

00:08:51: My military language.

00:08:52: And now you need to get the decision.

00:08:54: are doing that or not?

00:08:56: Are you taking double risk?

00:08:59: Can the soldiers trust you?

00:09:00: can other commanders trust you?

00:09:03: But do know that your promise is to the Syrians, you know That if he will not provide them baby we'll not get a baby formula for example.

00:09:13: So you are making a lot of other calculations and your have on the microtactic level to address that situation, give first-hand solutions.

00:09:29: And change on field.

00:09:32: how preparation so this is goes through the operational level.

00:09:37: however I will give one more example.

00:09:40: problem that hit us or challenges heat us.

00:09:43: for example we provided flour to the other side, to the syrians they make with this bread.

00:09:51: Now it was going with huge pallets one ton which means that twenty five kilograms in each in each bucket, forty of them.

00:10:07: Now just imagine that when you are on the border and now have a fault cliff taking to other side it hit it and the pallet is breaking all bags falling down.

00:10:21: what will do any minute on death land?

00:10:27: there's risk solution.

00:10:31: we're not leaving yet.

00:10:32: we will take it by our hands.

00:10:34: It means that now you have more challenges to provide this bread, More time!

00:10:40: You need to take more information in calculation but if you were not provided people would not eat bread the day after.

00:10:52: So these are just small examples of the challenges that we're facing Day-by-day.

00:11:01: We had our challenges and we need to bring very quick solutions.

00:11:07: How did your balance humanitarian work, security concerns for the soldiers you are with?

00:11:13: I think there needs to be like a balance between the soldiers and civilians.

00:11:17: how do you manage that ?

00:11:19: We realize it is not simple mission or risk mission.

00:11:24: Our soldiers realized that.

00:11:27: Our soldiers understood From their point of view because a soldier in his mind is doing a mission.

00:11:35: In order to defend its country.

00:11:38: Humanitarian aid, it's not the typical military work.

00:11:42: When you explain them that meaning of that mission Is true.

00:11:47: first of all save people.

00:11:49: on the other hand It's under emotional side Of the soldier and when he saw two children coming from Syria here immediately remember in his home he has a little brother or sister that looks like this Syrian young boy, but on the operational side you explain him exactly as explained at beginning.

00:12:14: We want to show them we are not enemy and they can trust us.

00:12:21: it means help us secure the border because if there is less hostility on the other side, probably there are fewer risks.

00:12:32: It means that we reach the same consequences but without using military power and soft power.

00:12:42: when you explain to soldiers why it's important for them to provide fuel or bread or medicine they realize experience the hundreds of moments with people that living only five hundred meters from them and they realized how they were living,and how privileged it was for us to help those people.

00:13:11: Well you see them smiling in your understood that are willing To put their lives on a risk For humanity.

00:13:20: air for the state of Israel is goes hand

00:13:22: by hand.

00:13:24: It's now in the Gaza conflict, often like armed groups are taking all of humanitarian aid.

00:13:31: And how did you make sure that he really reached civilians and not the armed group there?

00:13:39: So I would just mention that first of all is a huge difference between what happened in Syria and Gaza.

00:13:43: In Gaza, the armed groups or Hamas are government.

00:13:48: In Syria they want to go on.

00:13:52: Honestly!

00:13:55: I couldn't have one hundred percent to control if One of the arm group got some bread or some medicine.

00:14:03: however, we could have monitor and We did this very carefully Who is getting date?

00:14:11: And how he provided aid.

00:14:14: I can give you an.

00:14:15: it's written in my book.

00:14:16: That was two cases.

00:14:19: while realized that our colleagues so-called colleagues Got an aide.

00:14:25: The mission was to give it the people of their village and we got by third side that they are sending in order to earn money.

00:14:38: The message is very powerful.

00:14:40: immediately, We cut the aid And we said To other people In our villages It's not because you don't want help You put a corrupt person That hit you at end.

00:14:56: I think that was a very powerful message because after it hit two times and they changed the POCs, people of contact.

00:15:06: We didn't see this again.

00:15:08: so like i said you don't have one hundred percent insurance in those cases.

00:15:17: however we could monitor...I think on other side Syrians realized there were lots tools to realize if they are cheating or not cheating and as much I know the humanitarian aid reached people that at end of day were needed.

00:15:40: How we did it?

00:15:40: For example, We had a project in which twenty-five children accompanied by their mothers entered Israel every week for medical treatment.

00:15:51: Now when you're sitting with an old hajja and you're sitting with her, talking to her.

00:15:59: You can hear a lot of voices whether the village got humanitarian aid or in clinic there is medicine because we send medicines.

00:16:10: so I had alot people ask directly questions that were interesting me.

00:16:20: So i do believe that we succeeded on doing good job again.

00:16:25: Probably it wasn't one hundred percent guarantees, but I think that we're close to that.

00:16:32: Some critics say that humanitarian work by the military can also serve political or strategic goals?

00:16:40: How would you respond to this?

00:16:42: I'm not there embarrassed of shyness for political goals because i think its far too much about strategic goals.

00:16:50: like they told One of our understanding was that we can change the environment between Israelis and Syrians.

00:16:57: It's a strategic goal, Of course made by the humanitarian aid.

00:17:03: I will ask you or any other person We could have sit behind the fence And let them die.

00:17:11: so What is more important?

00:17:14: Of course, we are not an NGO.

00:17:16: We're another humanitarian organization by the way also a humanitarian organization like probably understand have their own political or strategic point of views.

00:17:26: so it's goes hand but with him.

00:17:28: But Like I said i do believe that understanding or if you are trying to dig and find what was the strategic goal, yes.

00:17:37: The strategic goal is to build bridges between people To connect directly not indirectly nor through politicians Not through media.

00:17:46: I met thousands of Syrians.

00:17:48: It wasn't any other opportunity for Israelis Or for Syrians who made so many Israelis or so many Syrians.

00:17:56: So i do believe that this strategic goal was very important and it wasn't like.

00:18:02: we are going to take advantage on that situation.

00:18:06: The situation happened, the humanitarian aid happen... ...the understanding through which can build bridges.. ..and will have a win-win situation for both sides because also the Syrians realize who is Israel.

00:18:20: How did you personally deal with the fact that the IDF is a military force?

00:18:25: You are working there, of course.

00:18:27: While at the same time providing medical care and humanitarian food like.

00:18:31: how does it resolve your kind-of work?

00:18:33: can you explain a little bit more so that listeners maybe understand also the work of The IDF a little better?

00:18:40: I'm not a warrior in the idea.

00:18:42: I was serving in a unit called the Koga, The Coordination of Government Activities and Territories in Judea and Samaria and Gaza.

00:18:48: In most my days what have made me military long long military career?

00:18:54: What they've done is to coordinate with people living on other side whether it's Palestinians in Gaza, Hebron, Betlehem, Tulkarem, Calculia all over Judean-Samaria or in Syria?

00:19:06: The IDF is doing humanitarian aid... ...I will mention all over the world.

00:19:11: You will find the IDF rescue teams on Ahiti and Tahiti when they had their earthquake.

00:19:18: We'll find them in Turkey, you will find him in Africa while a village was destroyed from explosions of ammunition.

00:19:28: I have reached for the first.

00:19:30: so that idea sending is better than it was.

00:19:33: there were between Russia and Ukraine.

00:19:35: The First Army to build field cleaning at Poland on the border was IDF.

00:19:44: so The idea of provide aid all over the world I do believe that is go back to our values.

00:19:53: for me as a person That did it dedicate my military career full humanitarian aid four building bridge bridges with other side.

00:20:02: It's always very simple.

00:20:03: They're understanding them With that if you are using it correctly.

00:20:08: Because later on maybe we'll talk about what is happen when NGO or someone use humanitarian aid not in a proper way, but When you're using it correctly.

00:20:21: and I will say that this was the huge difference between one happened in Syria to What happens in Gaza?

00:20:27: When your use it correctly.

00:20:29: I think Miracle can happen bridges Can be built.

00:20:33: so i'm not the person that need to be convinced.

00:20:37: yes My one of the missions that I took for myself is to explain it, not convince to explain.

00:20:45: It through the soldiers.

00:20:46: why if a warrior in IDF is doing that mission?

00:20:51: Uh i can tell you there are commanders said they become better human beings and by the way One of our roles off the idea.

00:21:01: Maybe it sounds strange, but you know we are taking those children when they're eighteen.

00:21:06: They going out when their twenty-one is to make them better civilians.

00:21:12: and I think that when they saw the poverty on other side And realize that they can raise their hand and help the other side people living in another site They become better human beings better civilians better warriors because they now realize for what their fighting form which is in a very,very important lesson.

00:21:35: For the soul of warrior.

00:21:37: so uh...for me it was easy.

00:21:41: happily i can say that for ninety-nine percent soldiers and commanders who were collaborating with thousands different units.

00:21:56: Ninety-nine percent of them, it was very easy to explain why we're doing

00:22:01: that mission.

00:22:02: Would you say the political impact with your operation good neighbor had on success during two countries Syria and Israel?

00:22:11: With Assad government of course wasn't a good relationship.

00:22:16: Assad called to destroy the state of Israel in order.

00:22:22: we are the enemies, he was an enemy and for sure He didn't give us credit of saving his own people although they were Syrians.

00:22:33: The same people that he was murdered.

00:22:36: but when everything has been changed in Syria a year-and-a-half ago so today there is a minister in the administration The manager of one of the most important organizations worked in Syria, not collaborating with IDF.

00:22:58: They were the rescue teams In Syria.

00:23:01: however you know our last operation.

00:23:03: we saved their lives over than four hundred of those people.

00:23:07: He was a CEO.

00:23:08: he knows that because me and my soldiers for more then four hundred his People are alive today And is sitting now on when there is the government meetings sitting.

00:23:25: A lot of Syrians living next to the border and a little bit more far away from them knows that they are leaving because Israel, a lot of syrians living outside Syria including in Germany know that or their friends or family members live thanks to the state of Israel.

00:23:46: so I do believe We had some huge advantage for the future from that operation, although we ended in two thousand eighteen.

00:23:57: And I desire because today this situation is unclear between Israel and Syria.

00:24:02: but my passion is when one time it will be talks Operation Good Neighbor would a great point to start these dialogue Because...we save you!

00:24:16: ...and don't hate you.

00:24:18: show us that you respect us and we can do great things together.

00:24:22: To some shadow points like countries, Russia Iran for example.

00:24:28: how did they react to the project?

00:24:32: Both of them didn't appreciate a project.

00:24:34: I'd say it was like this The way allies of their side government And from there point-of-view because Israel took aside and helped decide that fight against Assad.

00:24:49: So it wasn't goes well with their programs.

00:24:53: and we see, We saw the Russians are sending messages for the Israeli authorities about our actions with Iran around?

00:25:04: Well, we don't have any contact with them but we realized that Iranian trying sometimes to hit or operation by their proxies

00:25:14: etc.,

00:25:15: But It goes back to the former question.

00:25:19: and Iran now in those days We have a mutual enemy.

00:25:25: we end The Syrian government.

00:25:27: Those are the Shiites extremist shias of Iraq And they shared militias off Iran and his baller in Lebanon, and you saw that during that war I shall ascend his troops To close the borders with Lebanon into Iraq not to give them the opportunity, to take advantage on the Syrian land.

00:25:47: To attack Israel.

00:25:49: so it goes back also what we have done before.

00:25:52: they know that israel saved those their people because there are Sunnis and we help the Sunnis population.

00:25:59: And now They're closing It.

00:26:02: you Know The Relationship Between Ashara Sunni to Ashiite which were killing him or his people, so they do not appreciate much each other.

00:26:13: But I will add that the understanding of Israel where there are people who stand alongside their own people... ...I think it is also very important for them to understand that he does not want to give them opportunity to eat husk.

00:26:34: So everything connected the end of day.

00:26:39: I think that impact on what we have done, you can see it even today.

00:26:45: your hearing people from outside Syria saying i'm alive thanks to Israel and still having for example a surgery that an Israeli doctor did.

00:26:58: he saved my life.

00:26:59: so again this is not something before gotten very quickly.

00:27:04: Did the actions change your work somehow from Iran or Russia?

00:27:10: Did you had to change a lot of things in your

00:27:13: project?".

00:27:14: So like I said, it was part of challenges.

00:27:17: Fog is challenge!

00:27:18: Iran is a challenge!

00:27:19: Hizballah's a challenge when... You don't get the Ford cliff- It's a

00:27:26: Challenge!!

00:27:27: I had three years full of Challenges.

00:27:30: again this why wrote the book?

00:27:33: because I do believe that managers and yes, i'm a military person but And this was in military operation.

00:27:43: But they do believe people will read the books.

00:27:47: Take look how I chose to call it embracing enemy.

00:27:52: People who will read it Will find not just A very romantic story About israel & syria relations.

00:28:02: They will find literally tools to how you build trust.

00:28:06: How, uh... You work on an uncertain... Uncertainty.

00:28:12: they will find tools of how to build collaboration.

00:28:16: that would understand why failure sometimes is something it's necessary and how your facing a failure.

00:28:28: everything with examples from what we have.

00:28:32: So plenty of challenges, Iran was a challenge, Turkey I can tell you that I had bigger challenges because again this is something very strategic.

00:28:43: We knew they are operating to block us but i will leave it for the politicians on the field.

00:28:54: if there's Intel about a team that trying to hit me, of course we had too see how are doing it in other side.

00:29:04: But like I said everything In this book was mentioned at.

00:29:09: people will not just read an ice story but I do believe because It Was Like That i can call it the startup and national start-up yes?

00:29:19: Yeah, I didn't earn money for that.

00:29:21: What is some kind Of Start Up?

00:29:23: I Do Believe That People Can Learn from This Experience and you asked me why I wrote it because its a story that should be told.

00:29:31: but there is plenty of lessons about leadership, how...about the meaning off..how your taking the soldiers behind you.

00:29:42: so i think like I said before goes with message on book.

00:29:50: With addition to very emotional examples what we experienced or on the field.

00:29:58: Who did you write a book for?

00:29:59: Is it like wider audience, Or Did You Just Put It Out For Military People's?

00:30:05: What Can We Expect?

00:30:07: I do believe that anyone and everyone excuse me can find something in this Book That He Can Say Wow!

00:30:21: It Helps Me because some people.

00:30:25: We'll read the chapter about how I describe this situation as a human being.

00:30:34: As father of three children, meeting a Syrian child in the middle of winter is coming barefoot on the middle night.

00:30:42: he's crying.

00:30:43: it can break your heart and one will say wow its amazing to see that a Syrian girl is drawing the flag of Israel mentioning her name.

00:30:55: And others will say, wow we so appreciate the fact that you realized how to build trust without a sign.

00:31:04: So I think everyone can be connected Israelis Jews non-Jews Syrians people from Germany everyone can find this book, something that you will say.

00:31:23: Okay I want to read this chapter.

00:31:26: it talks to me.

00:31:28: what are the

00:31:28: most

00:31:29: important lessons from The Book and From The Project?

00:31:33: That other countries and militaries could take form the experience?

00:31:38: i think that important lessons or know the culture And a tradition of talking with or communicating it to.

00:31:55: we are from Israel.

00:31:55: you're form Germany.

00:31:57: We were living in although.

00:31:59: We have the Western education and will be leaving democracy and liberal values.

00:32:05: probably There is huge difference between us, and if we want a company together I need to understand how your thinking and what?

00:32:17: Lead You And unit to understand this about me.

00:32:21: so I do believe that first to understand who is standing on the other side, what his limitation?

00:32:30: What are the forces forcing him to something because you can for example again if it goes into business.

00:32:41: You don't have many investors.

00:32:42: so i need address and learn everything from culture.

00:32:50: So this is one thing that's very important.

00:32:52: I will give you an example from my story, for example we know that Muslims have two big holidays the Idl al-Adha and Idl Al-Fitr And We provide them in those Holidays meat.

00:33:07: Why?

00:33:07: Because on their tradition In those holidays they are eating a lot of Meat!

00:33:13: In Syria i don't had ability to buy meat.

00:33:16: it was very expensive While I was delivering the meat during these holidays, it tells them that It's not just.

00:33:26: I want to give you a because they could have gave him flour or I don't know corn.

00:33:33: He also say that I Know your tradition?

00:33:37: I know your culture.

00:33:49: untold messages, we are friends.

00:33:53: I took time to give something.

00:33:56: they know that it is important for you.

00:33:59: so this is just one example.

00:34:00: i do believe that this is two main and very powerful and important messages.

00:34:05: by the way i think that a third message and it goes to managers leaders is to know how.

00:34:16: I'm writing today, in these days a PhD about collaboration into organizational collaboration and crisis.

00:34:26: And one of the chapters is trust.

00:34:30: Red lines are an important part of building trust.

00:34:33: it means that i can trust you or give.

00:34:35: however there's rules.

00:34:37: if we're breaking even not be comfortable to me We will not work together.

00:34:44: I told you about the two guys that we found were cheating on us, there was plenty of other examples with Syrians and one of the NGOs worked with me to break their agreement between us The informal agreement And i decided take a decision To take him out this project although he needed his money very much because it is red line And I do believe that is a very powerful message for leaders, managers.

00:35:17: You cannot close your eyes you can not blink if we are doing something wrong will happen to the company or organization.

00:35:29: so maybe tactical operative lessons business, whether in the industry managers as managers.

00:35:45: Well we are most of us all the same way have different challenges but We have this same understanding or the same system that we need to lead and This is how you're trying to lead it build it.

00:36:00: And do you think that other conflict zones could work also like?

00:36:05: The project operation?

00:36:07: good neighbor

00:36:08: I believe so.

00:36:09: But like I gave a hint, like twenty minutes ago about and spoke about Gaza.

00:36:17: I do believe that humanitarian aid is a huge power especially when you're reaching to zones suffered from crisis any kind of crisis.

00:36:28: by the way it can be a storm earthquake or war.

00:36:34: i think that war is even more extreme.

00:36:37: if we are not using for the right you can get exactly the negative,the opposite effect.

00:36:47: I will give example about Gaza.

00:36:50: for years they UN an organization called the UNERA was working in Gaza selling to anyone that is a humanitarian aid.

00:37:01: eventually we realized there were terror supporters.

00:37:07: They used this humanitarian aid in order to build the power on Gaza and they use it against civilians.

00:37:18: I'm not talking about Israel, because if you are living in Gaza then you need the flour or water or fuel that is given by this organization whether you will obey them or not?

00:37:34: If we criticize him he won't get them!

00:37:37: This is a bad influence about humanitarian aid.

00:37:42: So I do believe that the humanitarian aid is something important, and you do believe organization should understand how to work?

00:37:51: And i will say in areas for example like Gaza or maybe Lebanon these days it might give power opposite of people who don't want them to control In Syria, what was so important?

00:38:12: that it wasn't vacuum.

00:38:14: You don't didn't have the government.

00:38:16: while The Government like in Gaza taking advantage on this research you're building It and They can use it not for their appropriate ways.

00:38:29: So I do believe That is a model that we should embrace but We have to think carefully how to use it?

00:38:39: Finally, in one sentence what should international humanitarian organizations and NGOs could learn from your experience?

00:38:48: Because we have the problem.

00:38:49: We... ...have like a lot of reports that are saying that armed groups are taking humanitarian aid supplies.

00:39:00: What would you learn from the experience or project about this?

00:39:04: So I think humanitarian aid, its mission is to provide aid but it needs to understand what the situation on the ground in order not give aid that will go into the armed group or people who use it for corruption.

00:39:24: By the way you are saying about armed groups Also concern from corruption, you know if I'm a corrupted person taking this food and getting a lot of money.

00:39:40: I can build the kingdom From that.

00:39:43: so maybe i don't have an armed group.

00:39:45: But how will be end-of-the-day?

00:39:47: How would he demand with the research we demand with power?

00:39:50: So I do believe it's in organization.

00:39:53: when they are entering feel that needed humanitarian aid to address it and they had to monitor.

00:40:01: And from time-to-time, like I did... They need to cut it because people thinking that to give it is like okay i'm delivering it and we did it!

00:40:14: It's good for us know sometimes you are creating a negative influence at the area came.

00:40:25: So yes, you need to put your resources in order understand what is going on and if for example that You are giving humanitarian aid to civilians And it has been hijacked from corruption or for military group stop doing this For example trying to build a mechanism That will give the ability not do that.

00:40:52: Again, there is plenty of tactics.

00:40:54: I don't know a brain like people that can secure those areas because you know the people in need.

00:41:03: They can be sometimes even brutal because they're fighting for your life or their lives.

00:41:08: So we have to secure it Because the consequences of bad use of this humanitarian aid might be even bigger than if it wasn't been delivered.

00:41:21: And I think that this is not what's going on in a lot of places.

00:41:25: again as an Israeli, i can give you the examples about What Is Going On Here In The Middle East but Im sure That It Is Happening In Other Places In The World.

00:41:37: I

00:41:45: will be interested in hearing this podcast and then to read what we have done, and address more.

00:42:16: frames.

00:42:18: For me it was a great honor to be interviewed and I hope that this message will be shared, people would be able to

00:42:26: hear it.

00:42:27: We'll also link your book so everyone can read if you like in English as well.

00:42:34: for now Thank You!

00:42:37: And the audience who are watching this episode of Mina Talk for your time, if you enjoyed this conversation feel free to share also in social media world and follow Mina Watch from our interviews about the Middle East.

00:42:50: My name is Jasmine Arimi.

00:42:52: thankyoufor being with us.

00:42:54: see you next time!

00:42:55: There you will find daily news, current reports and extensive

00:43:01: research-based

00:43:08: background analysis on the history of the MENA region.